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Bartholomewcm
gatherer
Username: Bartholomewcm
Post Number: 104
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 11:27 pm: |     |
Reputation somewhat unjustly sullied by his getting sucked into J.W. Campbell's pionics kick before he got very far in his career. Originally one of the Golden Boys, a staple of JWC's Unknown, plenty versatile. Definitive author-trapped-as-character story with Typewriter in the Sky (sometimes paired in edition with Fear. Wonder why he never sued the producers of John Candy's movie "Delirious?" Gritty future-war realism in Final Blackout. And wonder why his Slaves of Sleep has never hit the big screen? |
Cavebear
storyteller
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 203
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 12:57 am: | |
I wouldn't read anything by L. Ron Hubbard if it was all I had on a desert island. You seem to be ignoring his scientology cult garbage.
Yesterday, my cat came when called. That worries me; I hope she's not ill! |
(Unregistered Guest)
visitor
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 1:55 am: | |
The ones I mentioned were from before his cult. I suppose Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is garbage because of his off-center beliefs? Campbell himself was a true wacko if there ever was one. Might be interesting to investigate the propensities of every one of your favorite artists. |
Pine
storyteller
Username: Pine
Post Number: 196
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 6:34 pm: | |
The point is Hubbard's writing promoted his ideology. My husband read 'Battlefield Earth'. I have no intention of doing so. I have no idea how far back Hubbard's scientological musings go. How long did it take him to decide he was going to get rich by getting people sucked into a religious system? |
Rowan
bear cub
Username: Rowan
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 6:52 pm: | |
Before I knew about Hubbard's religious twist I read Battlefield Earth and I found it rather xenophobic and very distastful - never read anything else by him |
Bartholomewcm
gatherer
Username: Bartholomewcm
Post Number: 107
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 1:10 am: | |
posted: The point is Hubbard's writing promoted his ideology.
--Oh, horrors, an author promoting his own beliefs in his writing! Whatever shall we do? Guess I'll have to throw away all my Robert A. Heinlein books. Shouls we shoot him now, or wait till we get home? Help, help! |
Cavebear
storyteller
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 208
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 3:14 am: | |
I understand that some people tend to separate the art from the artist. Indeed, most times I must do the same because I don't know much about the artist.
But foreknowledge does allow me to make some decisions about what I will read or not read. I am am aware of Heinlein's apparent sexist attitudes. I work around those because he demonstrates considerable skills in other parts of his stories. On balance, his works are worth reading in spite of the flaws.
But I equally have the right to deliberately ignore and even castigate a writer who has produced work that demonstrates a break with reality. I doubt that Mr. Heinlein believed that his stories represented reality. L. Ron Hubbard, on the other hand, seems to have gone from writing fiction that he understood to be fiction to writing fiction that he thought was factual.
I suppose Mein Kampf might be very compelling reading, but that doesn't mean I have to respect the author. Equally, knowing the ideology of L. Ron Hubbard, I don't feel compelled to grant him any respect either when he presents what he thinks to be factual in fiction form.
It's not what he says, but what he thinks is true as he says it. L. Ron Hubbard isn't writing science fiction, he is writing what he thinks is fact. That doesn't mean he is a sci-fi writer, just that he is a writer of bizarrely bad science.
There's a difference between the two.
Yesterday, my cat came when called. That worries me; I hope she's not ill! |
Bartholomewcm
gatherer
Username: Bartholomewcm
Post Number: 113
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 4:10 am: | |
posted: It's not what he says, but what he thinks is true as he says it.
--Aha! Most of the works I mentioned he wrote BEFORE going off the deep end. He was indeed a talented sf writer and, as I have stated, I lay a portion of the blame for his derailment on Campbell's shoulders. A quick browse of the Analog anthologies of the 1950's will show that JWC was almost ramming psionics and related matters down his readers' throats. I suspect it's what attracted him to Anne McCaffrey and her telepathic dragons. (Campbell's other bugaboo was the human-uber-alles galactic civilization that he saddled all of his writers with, wouldn't touch a story about non-drooling aliens.
And which Heinlein have you been reading? Sexism is one of the least of his problems.
Off-topic, but I'm still shaking my head over it: My son came home from school last week and told me a girl in the class had brought a book for show-and-tell. It was an autographed copy of Mein Kampf. |
Cavebear
storyteller
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 211
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 6:08 am: | |
My only knowledge of Hubbard is from his scientology days, so I will leave it at that. I've been reading sci-fi since the late 50's, and Hubbard never crossed my path.
I will suppose it is entirely possible he wrote something worth reading before he went looney-tunes, but it is also true that I wouldn't touch anything with his name on it now.
As far as Heinlein and sexism, I have to ask which ones *you* have read that didn't seem sexist in many parts. He had one theme in all his stories and that was the old wise cranky man who was adored by some group of devoted but otherwise intelligent and beautiful women. His shtick of benevolent sexism-from-male-superiority is nearly omnipresent.
I will admit that an *autographed* copy of Mein Kampf would be both financially and historically valuable (so far as I know). It wouldn't change my opinion about the content of the book in any way. It is serendipitous, though. I do enjoy coincidences.
Yesterday, my cat came when called. That worries me; I hope she's not ill! |
Pine
storyteller
Username: Pine
Post Number: 198
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 6:26 am: | |
Did Hubbard ever believe in his own religion? I thought it was all a cynical money-making ploy. |
Rhi
storyteller
Username: Rhi
Post Number: 80
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 6:55 pm: | |
That's what I thought, too, Pine. I thought I read somewhere that he admitted that. Something like he thought he could start a religion... well I did a quick Google search and can't find anything, but I don't have time for a longer search right now.
Mostly Harmless |
Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie
Post Number: 297
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 11:21 pm: | |
Discussion of Heinlein moved to the Heinlein and authority thread.  |
Prehistorical Fiction, SF and Fantasy