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JADE STARS * Mythology and Religion * Atheists go to heaven, the religious don't! < Previous Next >

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Don
flint knapper
Username: Don

Post Number: 1124
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This from Emma Tom, a writer in the Australian newspaper, from yesterday's paper.

I think it denotes the further secularisation of australian life, that such a piece could be carried in a major paper. It couldn't have run thirty years ago, methinks.

I like the idea that if there is a god, he'd prefer atheists!


quote:



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22950652-12274,00.html

I'm not rapt in the Bible so here's my goodwill to you


THE WRY SIDE: Emma Tom | December 20, 2007

LIKE Mother Teresa, we non-believing heathens also suffer momentary crises of faith. "Jees," I sometimes think.
"What if all those God-botherers are Sesame Street Big Birds and their imaginary friend turns out to be real?

"What if their version of Mr Snuffleupagus simply has a slapstick errand to run every time an atheist enters the room?"

It's those kitsch pictures of the rapture that get me worried. The ones where God and a murder of tootling angels hoover up the prayerful while everyone else is consumed by incomprehensible evil back on earth.

Whoever came up with this scenario certainly knew lots about pop psychology, because images of social exclusion on this scale inflame deeply primal - or at least deeply pubescent - anxieties.

The comforting herd, the popular alpha kids from school ... they're all beaming and sneaking peeks up the skirts of fellow rapturees as they're sucked upwards by the holy dustbuster.

Those of us left behind have only the crashing cars, devil plagues and other high school losers for company. First we got our heads flushed after PE. Then no one pashed us at the school social. Now this.

Talk about unfair.

Fortunately, these teenage visions of hell are easily vanquished in favour of a more adult version of what would happen if atheists and agnostics had to account for their earthly actions to a spiritual auditor.

In my opinion, any great deity who was smart enough to create the eyeball, funny enough to fashion farting and wry enough to hatch homosexuality would embrace non-subscribers with open arms (or open tentacles if she, he, it or they turned out to be of extraterrestrial origin).

It simply beggars belief that God - and from here on let's use the singular male pronoun as a polite nod to convention - would fail to recognise the dedication and difficulty involved in attempting to live a good life outside the framework of a 10-step religion.

After all, we infidels don't have the benefit of a book of rules that lays out the dos and don'ts of coveting asses and which explains, once and for all, exactly how many turtle doves should be slaughtered after ejaculation (unfortunately, dear Christians, the requirement still seems to be two).

Nope, every time we pagans find ourselves in an ethical pickle we have to sit down and rack our brains, our consciences and our collected wisdoms in an attempt to work out the right thing to do.

And if our behaviour falls short of our ideals, there's no easy way to ease our heavy hearts; no boxed confession-collectors to hear our sins and offer absolution. Only more racking as we try to forgive ourselves sufficiently to carry on.

If God exists and really is as all-everything as his billing, surely this is exactly the sort of self-starter behaviour he would applaud.

What's more, at the risk of getting all Groucho Marx about the club in which the Big G sits as chief door bitch, perhaps religion is a foil. Perhaps it's a test to weed out those who'd embrace scriptured intolerance, hatred and violence rather than having the courage to speak truth to power and declare these things the work of unspeakable evil.

When religious bullies demand their flocks become rapture-ready, they employ the same hectoring tone used by glossy magazines pushing the bikini-worthy body. But maybe it's these Jesus pimps who've behaved in an ungodly fashion and will be judged accordingly. Maybe, if the trumpets honk and the day of reckoning dawns, the sky will actually be full of big-hearted poofs, compassionate abortionists and inner-city Wiccans who've been particularly nice to cats.

The good news is that if the sceptics turn out to be right, we won't smite you or turn your flesh to fiery dung just because you didn't believe what we believed. Most of us are actually extraordinarily reasonable people who'll be more than happy to hold your hand, smooth your furrowed brow and try to think of something comforting to say as we gaze together into the void.

And on that note: A merry Christmas and a rapturous New Year to you all.



take what you want and pay for it
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Matera
gatherer
Username: Matera

Post Number: 56
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a Pope of the Church of the Universal Solvent, I say HAY-men. The God who invented pubic hair could do no less and still play fair.
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Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie

Post Number: 2186
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 4:32 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Makes sense. :D
Chess is the purest form of debate, unadulterated by a topic.
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Don
flint knapper
Username: Don

Post Number: 1127
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 3:32 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pine posted a link to this great story over at HZ.

The link is

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-179076.html


quote:


The Devil Popped my Tires
Bright Life
September 10, 2006, 07:53 PM
“Things happen for a reason.” I hear that all the time. “You didn’t get that promotion because God has another job waiting for you (does he have dental?). “You lost that baby because God knew it wasn’t the right time (God has really bad foresight).” One day last week, with a delicious sense of irony, I report that I had to get four new tires for a reason (besides a blow out and uneven wear):

It was time for a real-life theological debate!

After a giant hassle finding a tire shop that could provide both my size tires and reasonable service, I landed at Sun Tire. There were two guys in the waiting room chatting and watching an episode of “Who My Baby Daddy?” on Maury Povich. I was loathe to listen to it, so I asked if they had seating elsewhere. Nada.

So, with my limited options, I sit in the chair under the wall TV, so at least I don’t have to watch, and start reading a book in Spanish, which I’m slowly translating.

Of course, as I am a very poor reader of Spanish, my mind wanders to the conversation of my fellow Sun Tire captives. The first fellow was obviously a lay minister. His cadence was timed for the periodic outcry of “AMEN!” which always amuses me. He was sharing “The Word” with Average Guy, who was engaging in a bit of friendly banter.

“I’m married to TWO people,” Lay Minister pauses, “My wife, and JESUS.” I raise my book up a bit, because I am a smart-ass, and can’t help picturing Jesus in a three-way with this guy and his wife. To my surprise, Average Guy speaks to this pabulum.

“Man, you are full of it. Marriage is flesh and blood. Say what you want, but you ain’t married to Jesus.”

I smiled, but said nothing

Now, instead of explaining this bizarre little story of how married his imaginary friend, Lay Preacher goes straight for the threat. “You’ll feel differently when you’re burning in a lake of fire!” Average Guy blows him off, because, as we all know, it’s perfectly okay to threaten someone like this.

I, however, don’t feel the same way. Before I realize what I’m doing, I blurt out “Damn, that’s rude!" They both look at me weird, because, you know, white ladies are supposed to be frightened by black men, and they certainly don’t TALK to ones they don’t know.

After the initial shock wore off, Average Guy laughs. Lay minister looks at me, puzzled.

“Just because he doesn't agree with you, you threaten to have your god burn him?” “Of course not,” he says, I can see him putting on that “Christian Armor.” The cadence picks up a bit. “You just don’t understand.”
“Oh, I understand,” I interrupt, “Your husband loves you, but if he gets pissed with you, he's going to drown you eternally in fire. Sounds like a GREAT guy.” Average Guy laughs at the husband thing.

Lay Minister begins to visibly sweat. “Don't you believe in god?” he says.

Me: “No (Here we go!).”
LM: “Okay, let me ask you this? How were you born?”
Me: Vaginally.

The other guy is still giggling.

LM: “What about your parents?”
Me: “Vaginally.”
LM: “And their parents?”
Me: “It's vaginas all the way back.”

At this point, I think of turtles…But I digress.

The other guy is getting a kick out of me saying “vagina” so many times. Lay Minister guy is nervous.

LM: “So where did the first person come from?”
Me: “Evidence points to the first Homo Sapien Sapiens being one of the descendant species of Homo Erectus.

Response? Blank stares and long pause.

LM: “Oh, so you think we came from MONKEYS!?”
Me: “No, the fossil record indicates that humans and the great apes had a common ancestor some ways back, as did the Neanderthals and the other proto-humans.”

More blank stares.

I guess he figured he hit a “evolutionary dead end” here, as he changed tactics.

LM: “So where do you think you go when you die?”
Me: “Probably to the morgue.”
LM: “After that?”
Me: “Oh I dunno, creamatorium? In the dirt?”
LM: “What about your soul?”
Me: “My what?”
LM: “Your soul?”
Me: “Can you show me where that is?”

He gets a bit pissed, but smiles
LM: “You don't believe you have a soul?”
Me: “Nope.”

He crosses his arms. “I just can't talk to you.”

Me: “Too bad. This was just getting interesting.”

Average Guy starts talking to me.

AG: “Are you in college?”
Me: “No, but I did go.”
AG: “Is that where you learned about all that stuff?
Me: “Some of it.”

Lay Minister jumps in again

“So some professor just tells you something and you believe it?”

Me: “No. Some professor tells me about the repeatable results of hypotheses borne out of the scientific method.”
LM: “But you believe him!”
Me: “No. I believe the process. If someone comes up with something that disproves it, then I’d look at it. I wouldn’t just reject it because it doesn’t agree with a professor or a previous theory.”

Lay Minister looks away from me and starts again with Average Guy. “Jesus tells us everything we need to know.”

Me: “Oh, like slavery, murder, rape and incest?”
LM: “Oh that DOESN’T COUNT! That’s the old testament!”
Me: “Ah, but it does count. Your book quotes Jesus himself saying that he came to enforce the laws. He said they were not to be changed one dot or tittle.”

Average Guy gets a wide grin and almost sings, “YOU'VE read the BIBLE?”
Me: “Sure. It's a slow read, but culturally significant.”

Lay Minister stands up and looks to the tire guys. He's hoping his car is ready.
Other people have funneled in now, and the conversation has become more interesting than the TV. He changes tactics yet again.

“Well, who do you pray to?”
I giggle. “Who do I pray to? Who WOULD I pray to?”
LM: “Well why do you quote the bible if you don't believe in it?”
Me: “Because some people go around quoting a book written by goat herders and saying it has all the answers. I like to be prepared when I inform them that it doesn't.”

BLANK, BLANK STARES.

Dude is actually sweating

I really think he believes a white devil sits before him.

LM: “Do you live a moral life?”
Me: “I do.”
LM: “How can you without God to guide you?”
Me: “Um, I don't need talking snakes or burning weeds to tell me to be a good girl. I lead a moral life because it gives me personal satisfaction.”

LM: “You DON'T PRAY?”
Me: “No. I don't pray.” (we'd covered this one, I'd thought)

A woman who has been listening intently says “I pray every day.”
Lay Minister starts pointing to people in the room: “Do you believe in Jesus?
Do you believe in Jesus?”

They all say yes. He looks at me smugly, as if he’s made a point.

Me: “That's called argumentum ad populum. It's a logical fallacy.”

At this point, Tire Guy comes in and tells Lay Minister that his car is ready.

He LEAPS toward the keys.

I say: “You have a good day.”

He wishes me the same, and runs off.

I imagine that Sunday, he witnessed to his church how he faced the devil at Sun Tire.



take what you want and pay for it
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Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott

Post Number: 2192
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 6:21 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Don. I think there might be people that can and do represent their religions a wee bit better than this poor sop. Great story!

Scott

PS: Don't blame God for pubic hair Matera, that's evolution's fault! ;)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla
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Cavebear
cave painter
Username: Cavebear

Post Number: 3237
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is this FF/FD stuff in the boxes I see now?
Thank you, Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins...
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Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie

Post Number: 2301
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The board has recently switched to UTF-8 encoding, and some previously posted characters didn't take too well to that. ;)

I don't see FF/FD tags (though I do sometimes see "empty boxes"), so this is what I found on it with Google: Firefox Support forum thread: A glyph with the letters FF FD appear in web pages (you can also follow the other link posted on that page for more discussion), but even without changing your defaults, simply going to your browser's View panel -> Encoding, and changing the selection to some European encoding just for the specific page being viewed, should solve the problem (or a similar route, depending on your browser).
Chess is the purest form of debate, unadulterated by a topic.
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Cavebear
cave painter
Username: Cavebear

Post Number: 3238
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 5:14 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I changed to: Western (Windows - 1252). That seems to have solved it. Thanks... :-)
Thank you, Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins...

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