| Author |
Message |
    
Cavebear
storyteller
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 845
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 1:21 am: |     |
Ruly, ept, nane, and mune are not words. So, why are there opposites for them (unruly, inept, inane, and immune)? Did the base words exist at one time? Are there words that only mean negatives of non-existent positive words?
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken about that. |
Roon
bear cub
Username: Roon
Post Number: 37
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 3:05 am: | |
I imagine the base words existed at some point. One example springs to mind- the word ruth. I actually came across it while reading "Jane Eyre" last week, and it threw me for a moment. The phrase, I believe, was "totally without ruth". Nowadays, you never hear the word "ruth" used by itself, you only hear "ruthless". "Ruth" by itself isn't even in my dictionary, yet it was in a work of literature written not too long ago. But in future translations of Jane Eyre, the phrase will likely be translated as "totally ruthless" and people will forget that "ruth" was once a word...perhaps like "ruly", "ept", etc.
Who knows?
Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance~ Sam Brown
Setbacks pave the way for comebacks~ Anonymous |
Anndee
storyteller
Username: Anndee
Post Number: 93
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 3:11 am: | |
This is a pretty gruntling topic, cavebear.
Edited to add the following.
I just looked all the negative words up at: http://dictionary.reference.com/
inept = in + apt;
unruly = un + rule;
immune = im + *mie (IndoEuropean) or immunus (Latin for "free from a pubilc service, related to "community" or "municipal");
inane = in + anis (meaning "void");
ruthless = ruth (having compassion) + less
disgruntled = dis + gruntle (grumble)
Then I looked up the positive roots. Gruntle and ruth really are words! As is "apt" of course.
(Message edited by anndee on March 06, 2004) |
Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie
Post Number: 694
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 4:38 am: | |
First, the disclaimer: I am not a linguist. 
Now... 
It would stand to reason that antonyms could not have come into existance without their base words. 
"Non-antonyms", however, could result in the English language mainly from two possible processes:
1. By their original English base word falling into disuse, and/or being replaced by another word adopted from a foreign language, or
2. By the antonyms themselves being adopted into use in English from a foreign language, without adopting their base words from that language along with them.
A third possibility is when both the base word and the antonym exist, or get adopted, but evolve differently, such as undergoing a vowel shift. "Inept", for example, is the antonym of "apt" (in this case the vowel shift occurred already in the original Latin).
Fascinating subject, etymology. 
From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:
quote:Main Entry: un·ruly
Etymology: Middle English unreuly, from un- + reuly disciplined, from reule rule
quote:Main Entry: in·ept
Etymology: Middle French inepte, from Latin ineptus, from in- + aptus apt
quote:Main Entry: inane
Etymology: Latin inanis
quote:Main Entry: im·mune
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin immunis, from in- + munia services, obligations; akin to Latin munus service
semi-professional floccinaucinihilipilificatrix |
Pine
storyteller
Username: Pine
Post Number: 381
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 6:38 am: | |
The other possibility, which apparently doesn't apply to the above examples, would be that a word has the appearance of an antonym, but in fact the first syllable isn't a prefix but part of the stem of the word. |
Cavebear
storyteller
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 848
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 8:27 pm: | |
"This is a pretty gruntling topic, cavebear."
Are you "dis"ing me?
ROTFLMAO!
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken about that. |
Cavebear
storyteller
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 849
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 8:37 pm: | |
"He was a particularly ept worker. A ruly person, he obeyed the laws faithfully. Indeed, he was quite gruntled with life. Unfortunately, he was mune to several common non-eases, dying finally from temper."
Sounds weird, doesn't it?
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken about that. |
Anndee
storyteller
Username: Anndee
Post Number: 94
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 4:08 am: | |
Add to that, he was vincible (which I find is actually a word). See the comic strip "The Born Loser" for 3/6/04. |
Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie
Post Number: 697
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 12:04 pm: | |
He just thought the danger was minent. He didn't realize it was so stant (Edited to clarify: That's dis-, not in-! )
(Message edited by annie on March 07, 2004)
semi-professional floccinaucinihilipilificatrix |
Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie
Post Number: 698
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 12:24 pm: | |
Btw, does ery hate company? 
semi-professional floccinaucinihilipilificatrix |
Cavebear
storyteller
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 853
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 10:34 pm: | |
Were the wealthy French "les Erables"? Did people once enjoy the healthy condition of "entary"?
This is great! Or, should I say it is "engenuous"?
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken about that. |
Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie
Post Number: 700
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 11:35 pm: | |
-- Were the wealthy French "les Erables"? --
As a matter of fact, although the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary that I usually use to look up etymology doesn't make the connection, I strongly suspect that the word "arable" is directly related to "miserable" (another vowel-shift case).
quote:Main Entry: ar·a·ble
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin arabilis, from arare to plow; akin to Old English erian to plow, Greek aroun
1 : fit for or used for the growing of crops
2 British : engaged in, produced by, or being the cultivation of arable land
quote:Main Entry: mis·ery
1 : a state of suffering and want that is the result of poverty or affliction
2 : a circumstance, thing, or place that causes suffering or discomfort
3 : a state of great unhappiness and emotional distress
No etymology given for "misery", but I found this under "miserable":
quote:Main Entry: mis·er·a·ble
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin miserabilis wretched, pitiable, from miserari to pity, from miser
The logical connection I see is that arable land is productive, profitable - while miserable is a term associated with poverty - natural opposites. I could also conclude from this particular juxtaposition, without knowing anything about the Roman culture, that they must have been heavily into agriculture.
-- Did people once enjoy the healthy condition of "entary"? --
No telling what some people may enjoy...
semi-professional floccinaucinihilipilificatrix |
Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie
Post Number: 701
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 11:42 pm: | |
If Sionaries are people who don't try to convert others to their beliefs, I think I like them. (Pine, this is probably one of those cases in your point. )
semi-professional floccinaucinihilipilificatrix |
Cavebear
storyteller
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 944
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 8:45 pm: | |
I'm not sure. Perhaps Sionarries are atheists who stay at home and don't try to change the views of others. And maybe there are tinguished people who are unknown and famous for that.
Working in my yard today, I located my shoulder; a mild jury. Wow, it certainly is easy to pell these odd words! );
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken about that. |
Anndee
storyteller
Username: Anndee
Post Number: 99
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 8:46 pm: | |
Cavebear, you have to consider the root word, spell. The opposite is "misspell." |
Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie
Post Number: 766
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 9:21 pm: | |
Well, that's just it, isn't it?
And then there are some cases when an antonym acquires an antonym of its own... 
Seen through the curtain, the figures were tinct (tinct is actually a word, but has a different meaning, according to Merriam-Webster).
Don't tell him anything you don't want to see in tomorrow's headlines - he is notoriously creet!
semi-professional floccinaucinihilipilificatrix |
Pine
storyteller
Username: Pine
Post Number: 415
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 5:03 am: | |
Today my daughter defined rupting as waiting for one's turn to speak. |
Rhi
storyteller
Username: Rhi
Post Number: 130
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 6:52 am: | |
That's priceless, Pine! 
Mostly Harmless |
Bartholomewcm
hunter
Username: Bartholomewcm
Post Number: 230
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 3:29 am: | |
You are all gusting!
(BTW, does anybody know any onyms?)
To die will be an awfully big adventure.
--Sir James Barrie |
Thales
bear cub
Username: Thales
Post Number: 13
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 6:34 am: | |
In Robert Heinlein's "Stranger in a strange land" one chapter is "His maculate origin".
Nothing you plan is certain until it has happened, and quite often not even then. |
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