Topics  |  Help  |  Profile  |  Register  
Last 1  | 3 | 7 Days  |  Search  |  Tree View  |  Board Clock  |  Board FAQ    
JADE STARS * The Questions and Answers Game * Why do we cry? < Previous Next >

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Miisa
flint knapper
Username: Miisa

Post Number: 785
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My 7-year-old is an inquiring type, and posed this question to me the other day. I found I couldn't give him a proper answer, which bugs me. Perhaps there is a simple one, or is it still a mystery?

So: Why do humans cry? Why does tear fluid overflow in our eyes when we are hurt (physically or emotionally) or happy? Is there some physiological reason, or is it just a fluke in our development? Do any other animals cry for no seemingly logical reason?
Angelus' breakfast
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sweetsunray
storyteller
Username: Sweetsunray

Post Number: 1042
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.wonderquest.com/hidden-tears-hard-water -flat-poles.htm


quote:

Tears come from two places. First, from tiny glands (called the lachrymal glands), about the size and shape of a shelled almond, located just above the outer corner of each eye. Also, cells in eye membranes make tears — the ones that line the eyelids and cover the exposed part of the eyeball.

These glands and cells constantly form tears. The tears ooze through tiny ducts from the lachrymal glands into the eyelid membrane and thence over eyeball membranes where they flush the eye. That happens all the time, automatically, to prevent eyes from drying, which can harm vision and even lead to infection.

Events (like a fleck of dust landing on the cornea, bright lights shining into the eye, or eating chili peppers) can trigger a tear reflex response. Strong emotions — both laughter and sorrow — can also cause tears to flow.

The brain triggers emotional releases, such as laughing and crying. Perhaps the source of such feelings is indeed the soul or spirit but that’s beyond the realm of science.

Many animals seem to experience sadness as we do. They cry and whimper but few if any spill tears while crying. (A zookeeper, though, once told Charles Darwin that sometimes elephants weep from sorrow.)

Animals do shed tears, however. A crocodile’s third eyelid flushes tears across the eyeball to lubricate its passage and to clean and protect the eye. Birds moisten their eyeballs with tears while flying. An aardvark’s tear membrane protects its eyes against termite bites. Polar bears, horses, and dogs produce tears too.




http://www.wonderquest.com/weep2.htm


quote:

This is the second of a two-part answer. This part considers whether other primates and animals weep also. The first part discussed why people weep. See Further Surfing below.

Right: [Corel] A gorilla emotes.

Darwin noted that some human emotional expressions may have started as part of a physiological function: for example, baring the teeth to bite food. The function, however, took on meaning and became a form of communication: baring the teeth signals anger.

The same may be true for the animals, from which we sprang. Marmoset infant monkeys cry for attention. They also cry when older to signal to an adult that they want to be carried.

"Chimpanzees do make upset vocalizations when they are being weaned by their mothers or have lost their mother or other individual," says Anne Pusey, ecology, evolution and behavior professor at the University of Minnesota. She also directs the Jane Goodal Institute's Center for Primate Studies. "They whimper and cry and scream. When we hear these calls, the emotion involved seems obvious. However, they do not weep in the sense of producing tears. I have seen an adolescent male whimpering when he lost sight of his older brother with whom he had been traveling."



Infants of many mammalian species, including rats, cry. Moreover, when a baby rat cries, often his mother brings the fallen pup back into the nest. This is probably a straight-forward communication as it is with humans. However, psychologists at the University of Iowa aren't convinced.

The Iowan researchers can induce the same crying sounds by producing large decreases and then increases in blood flow. The blood flow also lowers when baby rats get cold. Thus, they conclude rat babies cry in the same way that we sneeze. Of course, the rat baby could also be crying because he's cold and wants his mother to know.

All young mammals make cries when separated from their mother, says Jaak Panksepp, a psychologist at Bowling Green State University. If you're willing to call this crying, then "certainly other animals show this emotional response," he says. "Some of us take seriously that animals do have emotions."

Charles Darwin said that the keeper of the Indian elephants at the London Zoo told him the elephants would sometimes weep from sorrow.




Both answers on the site say the following:
animals make tears as a reaction to outer influences, and have bodily outward reactions to inner body conditions. Making overflowing tears when you get something in your eye (= outer influence -> outer reaction) seems physically logical. By producing extra fluids chances become higher that you can get rid of the thing in your eye.

It becomes interesting when you think of the chilli peppers. When eating something extremely hot like chilli peppers both the nose starts to run and your eyes start to tear. Now, there's nothing either in your nose or eyes to provoke this reaction. But the taste buds and mouth are very close to the nasal tubes, which are linked to your synuses. Anyway it's a gland reaction to the hot chemicals in chilli peppers. And aside from the nose, you have eye glands producing tears. Hence the chili chemicals influence the shedding fluid reaction of proxmite glands.
Hot chili does not just give a chemical reaction, it phyisically hurts.
Now this provides a link of hurting physical in general as being able to produce an automatic reaction of shedding tears. Just like the baby rat cries with sound if its body temperature drops.
Both the sounds and the overflowing tears call the attention of other individuals to mind what's going on, and often produces a helpful gesture from the other individual:
- carry baby rat to the nest
- someone asking what's the matter while you're crying to get rid of the small fly in your eye. And then the other individual looks into your eye and helps you physically to rid you of the bug in the eye.
- a mother's breasts starting to lactate at the sound of her crying baby
So, now crying in sound and shedding tears becomes a social attention getter to ask and acquire help.

Emotions are linked to hormones... chemical stuff, and they are important stuff in social settings. We can be hurt physically, but also emotionally. With the shedding tear reaction linked to chemicals and hurt, we thus have become species that can weep for no other reason than the chemical reactions within our bodies, that is the hormones coupled to sadness and emotional pain. And the reaction signals other individuals there's somethign amiss. They'll ask you what's wrong. And you get your chance to unload and express your hurt and pain. In response the other individual will hold you, hug you and be sympathetic. These physical and emotional responses from the other will soothe your pain, and thus the hormones produced, and you'll stop crying. You feel better, more balanced again.
Which is better evolutionary wise, than having you cope with your emotional hurt alone, without sympathy from others. Because then the constant flow of sadness hormones may make your brain go into a depressed state, which may ultimately may lead to suicide. Which only makes sense evolutionary if you're infected with a parasite that wants to get into another environment (and then it's about the parasites survival).

Most animals don't need to weep, since they can express the need in a vocal response. And those needs they have to express are simple concepts: food, physical pain (and scaring away the rest of the herd from the predator), physical temperature discomfort. These concepts don't need a wide range of varied vocalisations. With the complicated emotions we as humans have that cover a wide range of social concepts aside from physical discomfort concepts there's need of more clues than just a cry out.

So, in short... we're social animals, and we better our chances for survival if we help each other and can ask for help. Emotions helps us bond and be social. But they come also with the downside of being in strong emotional pain when the bond breaks. And then we need help from others to overcome the pain. To get help you need to signal it to others. We can talk and tell people we're in pain, or cry out. But we can also give visual clues for our need of help... And those vlues have become tears. I suspect therefore that the weep response to need of help and attention from other individuals of the same species stems from a time from before we were able to talk. And it evolved that way because other individuals reacted to the tear response an dhelped us get rid of the physical discomfort such as a bug in the eye.
Everyone has a motive for giving arguments. But only the arguments given matter.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cavebear
cave painter
Username: Cavebear

Post Number: 2843
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(SSR) "It becomes interesting when you think of the chilli peppers. When eating something extremely hot like chilli peppers both the nose starts to run and your eyes start to tear. Now, there's nothing either in your nose or eyes to provoke this reaction. But the taste buds and mouth are very close to the nasal tubes, which are linked to your synuses."

Not to nit-pick an excellent post, but I question this particular statement. I have always been interested in the "why does cutting onions make me cry and how can I prevent it" question. I've seen many suggestions (lighting a candle, holding a burnt match between the teeth, wearing eyeglasses, etc). The few times I have read of any actual testing of these remedies (usually by food scientists), the only practical solution that seems to stand up is wearing eye-goggles. Now, this is interesting (in light of the conclusion you mentioned about proximity of mouth to nose and eyes) because the goggles cover only the eyes. I have to conclude that the sulfur compounds that make up the irritating aspects of cutting onions cause us to cry only because the compounds directly irritate the eyes, not from the proximity of other sensory glands like those for taste and smell.
Thank you, Carl Sagan...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sweetsunray
storyteller
Username: Sweetsunray

Post Number: 1043
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Onions: I do know that the chemicals are attracted to moist areas, and there's a simple trick to avoid shedding tears when handling onions - hang a wet towel around your neck. The chemicals will then be attracted to the wet towel encountered sooner than the eyes.

The onion reaction is something I'd classify in the 'get a bug in your eye' department. We don't shed tears or get a runny nose when actually eating the onion. We shed tears while cutting the onion and the chemicals rise and reach our eyes. The reaction is the following; First there's tearing, and when shedding tears a lot the nose starts to run as a side-product.

The chilli pepper reaction is different to me than the onion reaction. You can wiggle a chilli pepper in front of your eyes, or cut it (without actually touching your eyes hereafter of course) and you won't get a runny nose and eyes from it. The physical response (runny nose and shedding tears while neither nose or eyes are in pain or in direct contact with the chili chemicals) only comes when you eat the hot spice. And a running nose reaction is very profound when eating very hot chili, the shedding tears a side by product.

Onion is a direct outer influence... eating the chilli pepper is an indirect inner influence via the taste buds.

Everyone has a motive for giving arguments. But only the arguments given matter.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cavebear
cave painter
Username: Cavebear

Post Number: 2845
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks. I thought chili peppers would be like onions. I never use chili peppers in my cooking, but I do cut a lot of onions.
Thank you, Carl Sagan...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pine
flint knapper
Username: Pine

Post Number: 1221
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 6:42 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chili peppers (well the capsaicin in them) interact with pain receptors - whether on the tongue or on the skin. And in excess can block these receptors, hence the use of capsaicin in topical analgesics. I have used hot sauce successfully for toothaches.
Cohen's Law: 'Unless you fail at more than 10% of the things you try, you aren't trying enough things.'
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott

Post Number: 1510
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Which is why if you drink milk or oily food after chili peppers, the pain goes away as the lipophilic capsaicin is mixed with the oils and removed from the pain receptors on the surface of the tongue, but it seems ineffective with hot onions. Being a hydrophobic molecule, drinking water does nothing for chili pepper burning.

Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cavebear
cave painter
Username: Cavebear

Post Number: 2938
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to change the subject (much), but as I know that the flavors of different herbs and spices are released by water, oils, and/or alcohol, I would sure like to post a list in my kitchen of the ones that are released by which. Anybody have a source for that?
Thank you, Carl Sagan...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott

Post Number: 1527
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Give me a list of the herbs you use and I will ask my wife - she's the expert there.

Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration