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Black_ace
bear cub
Username: Black_ace
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 12:17 am: |     |
The general redneck response to a woman saying "I experimented in college with another woman" would be "wild child, not bring her home to mom but damn that's hot." If a guy were to say to a redneck "I experimented in college with another man" the response would be "fag!".
I hate that attitude! For the record I am bi sexual and when guys find out ( esp immature guys but i risk it here cos you all seem like nice mature people) they immeidatley say give us details and they find a "bi" (and i say "bi" cos u would not belive the amount of girls who only do it for guys and have not intrest in girls) friend for me to get to know. Then when they find out my guy friend is gay they abuse him and hurt him!
I hate this so much and people like that really need to grow up...I know this is not related to EC but it stirs a nerve in me. Oh and Copul I'm not accusing u of anything if u read this and think i am  lol.
Sigh Ok i feel beter now.
"But you are a woman, not a man, and you will be a woman always, in all ways but one.You may use only a sling Ayla , but you are now the Woman Who Hunts" |
Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 1211
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 6:56 am: | |
Yeah people do need to "grow up", or perhaps that is the problem?
In Canada a majority would support gay adoption and a majority support gay marriage, so I would say that homophobia is less than it would appear to be in the US. A young relative of mine insists that being "bi" is the thing among teenagers these days. She doesn't seem too concerned about it. Her brother doesn't agree, but doesn't seem to care either way. Anecdotal evidence yes. I belong to a couple of GLBT groups that helps support the community, especially youth and there are a lot of "straight" people involved. I go to Toronto Pride (parade) every couple of years in support or friends and half a million people show up for the parade - they can't all be gay!!!
Colpul, did you just come out of the closet or go back in? You aren't gay? I am crushed! 
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Sweetsunray
storyteller
Username: Sweetsunray
Post Number: 835
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 6:06 pm: | |
All I can say is that gays and lesbians can mary here and since recently adopt too. Once they were able to register as an official couple (but it wasn't a marriage yet) for legislation half end of the 90s, the public resistance ended. It ceased to be a debate topic. So, a few years after, when public realized our country didn't go downthe drain, politicians legalized same-sex marriage, afterwards they gave same financial consequences to being married or living together (those who were married paid taxes on combined income, while living togethers paid taxes on just their own income... which makes taxes for married people more expensive), and then after another few years they now legalized adoption. I'm sure many people still would prefer gays or lesbians to not be married or adopt, but not a majority anymore. And in a few decades only a small margin will shiver over it I imagine.
LOL, friend told me the other day that on the latest day at work, a colleague had referred to him as obviously being hetero, and then he said "Euhm... I'm not, actually." At least amongst twenty and thirtysomething it's a non-issue with the majority it seems.
It's all a process of normalcy. Outing is important. But not outing in a black and white manner, as in "I'M GAY!" as the first thing you need to shout at people, in words, mannerisms and clothing. That manner of outing only emphasises the idea of difference and extravagancy. Outing as in, just getting to know people as people, and then when the topic comes up, not hiding it and just saying "BTW I'm gay," says how normal the gay person think it is. And if the gay person shows it in a normal manner, then others adapt to that idea, and think gay's normal. And so, when many gays out themselves in a BTB way, lots of heterosexuals recognize there are many enough "normal" people in their social circle who are gay or lesbian. Once you get to that majority normalcy picture in society it then makes people think, "why shouldn't they marry?" in an emotional association sort of way, and not just principally. And when you cross that bridge the bridge to adoption is not far off. And then it takes just time to marginalize gay-right-phobes through association experience.
Everyone has a motive for giving arguments. But only the arguments given matter. |
Cavebear
cave painter
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 2410
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 11:07 pm: | |
I am most interested in dedicated homosexuality (as opposed to bisexualism) from an evolutionary view. Obviously, genetically and exclusively homosexual people don't have children, and therefore don't pass on their genes.
So, how does genetic homosexuality continue? I think that is going to be (once understood) a fascinating genetic discovery. There is some interaction of some genes that results in genetically-caused homosexuality, and it is going to be very educational to geneticists when they discover that collective connection.
Machiavelli was pretty devious. For a guy... |
Black_ace
bear cub
Username: Black_ace
Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 11:04 am: | |
Well with the way science is goin a gay man could have his own children.....sarrogate(spelling?) mothers is an option....
"But you are a woman, not a man, and you will be a woman always, in all ways but one.You may use only a sling Ayla , but you are now the Woman Who Hunts" |
Colpul
hunter
Username: Colpul
Post Number: 250
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 5:37 pm: | |
Cavebear, I don't think its just genes or a gene. What I mean is I don't think there is a "gay" marker, rather several groups of genes that when in consort give one a predisposition toward being gay under certain environmental factors.
What worries me is that if some marker is found it might end the debate about it being a life style choice but could be used by some to fool the less than educated masses into thinking that its a genetic disease. Then there could soon be the ethical question of gene selection of children. We are very close to being able to pick the eye color and such of babies. If a gene can be found for "gayness" will or should we allow its testing? Would parents abort a child if they knew that there was a 60% chance of them being gay? If there are such parents is it in the child's best interest to be raised by those parents? You can now pick your child's sex, how much longer before you can pick your child's sexuality?
There is evidence of homosexuality or at least bi-sexuality in many animals such as wolves and seagulls. I know much of the research tends towards a dominance display explanation but still I'd wonder if there has ever been any evidence of chimp or bobo homosexuality or bi-sexuality.
BTW, gay bars are great place to pick up chicks. I don't frequent them but a couple-three times a year there is a club over in Moscow, ID that has a drag show. Though it isn't a "gay bar" most of the area's gay clubbers hang out there. Anyway, most hetro men avoid the 'Beach' on drag night but I've found that it's pretty good pickings for us lady first types. The thing that cracks me up most about homo-bigots is that most of them really don’t need the competition.
Sometimes I wonder how we'll answer for what we've done which makes me wonder if atheists are being optimistic.
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Sweetsunray
storyteller
Username: Sweetsunray
Post Number: 841
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 6:10 pm: | |
Gay bars... a place of sheer female frustration... You go out with some good gay friends, fun. End up in a gay bar, teeming with gorgious looking guys, but not one looks at you once or twice. You hardly get noticed, while the guys around you get all the fun. Even the best sport starts to wish for cute heterosexual guys to get attention from after a few hours. Or you end up wishing you were a lesbian, at least then the attention the beauties are giving you would not be such a waste of time.
Everyone has a motive for giving arguments. But only the arguments given matter. |
Pine
flint knapper
Username: Pine
Post Number: 1144
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 8:54 pm: | |
Cavebear, see my post at the bottom of the previous page for 2 ideas about what could be behind the biology of male homosexuality. One is a kin selection idea and the other is a non-genetic one.
Cohen's Law: 'Unless you fail at more than 10% of the things you try, you aren't trying enough things.' |
Pine
flint knapper
Username: Pine
Post Number: 1145
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 9:10 pm: | |
Colpul, I once started a thread about acceptability of genetically modified children. Some 50% of the people interviewed would have wanted to influence the sexual orientation of a potential child, compared with some 80% who would have wanted to influence resistance to infectious disease, 60% for intelligence and 10% for sex. Personally I am not seriously concerned by selective abortion or genetic modification within reason (no deliberate creation of 'monsters' for side shows). If the genetics of left-handedness is worked out do you expect a reversal in the current acceptance of lefties back to the situation of a few generations ago? (Or not so long ago in some places)
Maybe the difference is timing. Maybe once some minority is accepted for a while understanding the genetics has less of an implication than if the order is reversed.
Cohen's Law: 'Unless you fail at more than 10% of the things you try, you aren't trying enough things.' |
Colpul
hunter
Username: Colpul
Post Number: 254
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 1:59 am: | |
I fear over time, say 500 years, we will end up with a bunch of 6'5" blond, blue eyed, fair skin but tan well, beautiful, brilliant, healthy, athletic, straight tooth, mole less, perfect people who I'd find totally boring. Too much social pressure to conform. Even if an ethnic group wanted to stay unique it would be eaten away at. Arabs might want to still have an Arab nose but 'just not quite as big as Uncle Ali's' over time would eat that nose down to Apollo's narrow straight chiseled snauze. Whether that's good or bad is for them to decide but as for me I prefer crooked teeth and big noses to plastic Barbie or as the Bard put it....
"My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips' red;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damask'd, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound;
I grant I never saw a goddess go;
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground:
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare."
Sometimes I wonder how we'll answer for what we've done which makes me wonder if atheists are being optimistic.
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Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 1215
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 2:12 am: | |
Ah, but will they be gay Colpul?
So, I guess Paris Hilton is not a role model then? 
I don't have much of a problem with manipulation of disease out of the pool, but high cheekbones? It just seems kinda frivolous to me - and yes boring.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Da_bear
flint knapper
Username: Da_bear
Post Number: 791
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 5:43 pm: | |
So, I guess Paris Hilton is not a role model then?
Not to me.
Although her "educational" video did get a rise out of me.
Too many thought her talent wasn't enough and she'd just blow it.
RUNNNN AWAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!
da bare
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. |
Colpul
hunter
Username: Colpul
Post Number: 260
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 6:48 pm: | |
I think Paris is a little too genetically flat chested to be the ideal. Besides I'd hope they alter for smarts and personality as well as looks. Kate Beckinsale, if we could clone her so everyone has a one I'd sign up.
So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign it said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me. I'm alive and doin' fine." |
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