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Darsina
bear cub
Username: Darsina
Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 9:41 pm: |     |
This summer a bunch of Auel fans met in Düsseldorf, a nice town near the Neanderthal valley where the remains of a "strange human being" (quoting a poster in the Neanderthal museum here) have been found about 150 years ago. During out visit to the Neanderthal we discovered an interesting novel in the museum's shop that combines prehistoric life with modern times science and society. It's "Ember from the Sun" written by Mark Canter. A Neanderthal embryo who was transplanted into a native American woman has not only to deal with our culture, but has also to face her own origins. I haven't read the book yet, as I'm still "digging" through piles of other books, but I think it sounds promising and I expect some questions to arise that are worth to deal with.
Does anybody know this novel?
Summary published at amazon.de
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Miisa
storyteller
Username: Miisa
Post Number: 41
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 6:21 am: | |
I read it a few years ago, and I should probably read it again, as I think a lot of the meaning went "over my head" in my hurry to read about Neanderthals. As far as I remember I found it very interesting, though some of the "supernatural" aspects of the story (like her dreams of what happened to her real parents, Clan style) I thought a bit annoying.
I really must try a re-read, if I can just find the time. |
Rhi
storyteller
Username: Rhi
Post Number: 36
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 12:07 am: | |
Gah, I just gave that book to my mum yesterday. I haven't read it yet, but found it at the library for $.50, and I'd heard about it, so I picked it up. I'll get around to reading it when I have less to read. It looks good.
Mostly Harmless |
Losaduna
bear cub
Username: Losaduna
Post Number: 1
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 1:56 pm: | |
Do you know that there's another, quite similar book about a Neanderthal child being born into our time? It's called "Raising Abel", by Gear & Gear (yes, as in "People of the _________" ). The main theme of that book is however not so much Abel's problems in adapting to our society, as our society's problems in accepting Abel. I consider it quite good. |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 64
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 2:25 am: | |
Absolutely I know this book - it is set in Canada!  I didn't like the premise much, but the tie in to aboriginal Canadians was nice. Has Canter written anything similar since?
Welcome to the board Losaduna! I am aware of the Gear's book but I haven't read it, probably the only one that I haven't. I will take your advice and pick it up. Thanks.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Rhi
storyteller
Username: Rhi
Post Number: 162
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 1:36 am: | |
Well, it wasn't all set in Canada, unless the Seattle/Mt Rainer area has moved there.  Last I checked, Canter hasn't written anything more.
But I read this book last week and thought it was very interesting. I think it's highly unlikely that anyone will find a viable Neandertal embryo, let alone have such a secret implantation that the child would survive to adulthood, and nobody would know about it. But the idea makes a good book.
I'd like to see the actual color of Ember's hair. I can't picture the red/black color very well.
Mostly Harmless |
Sidescraper_gal
bear cub
Username: Sidescraper_gal
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 2:47 am: | |
All:
I just joined, so probably I shouldn't be posting at all. I'm a writer, who is working on a set of science fiction novels, with Neandertals as the central characters. It is set in the near future, but the N's have to "hide" because (a)people would probably not treat them well if they knew about them and (b) they have some, um, unusual abilities that might scare some people. In any case, as part of my research efforts, I read all the novels some of you mentioned. "Ember from the Sun is what I would consider a Worthy Effort. It's interesting, but not very good, IMO. OTOH, the GEar book, "Raising Abel" is a lot better, and appears to be based on some pretty solid research. But if you want something truly *awful*, read a book called "Neanderthal" which came out a few years ago.
Anne Gilbert |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 366
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 2:58 am: | |
Anne, welcome to the board! If you need to know anything about Neanderthal, ask away.
What do you think about Robert Sawyer's portrayal of Neanderthals?
Do you mean Darnton's book? Yeah what a bunch of garbage.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Sidescraper_gal
bear cub
Username: Sidescraper_gal
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 3:25 am: | |
Scott:
You described the Darnton book exactly. A bunch of garbage. As for Sawyer --- I have rather mixed feelings about his trilogy. It's good. It's well-written(I wish I could write as well myself, as I'm p resently struggling through a chapter in my Great Science Fiction Masterpieces With Neandertals). But my problem with his ideas is, as I say, he rather uncritically accepts only *one* view of Neandertals --- a rather "minimalist" one based on certain interpretations of the genetic evidence. He can't apparently accept the idea that "hybrid" populations such as the one that may have produced the Lagar Velho fossil, ever existed. Since I also know a fair amount about wild canids(wolves, coyotes, jackals, etc), which are all counted as separate species, but which can all interbreed freely and produce fertile offspring, I have some trouble accepting his views. From the archaeological evidence I've come across --- and I've actually gone to the trouble of reading a fair number of anthropological journals --- Neandertals and early "moderns" actually had rather similar lives and behaved in rather similar ways. A lot of people, including, apparently, Sawyer, just can't seem to accept this, but the evolutionary record is decidedly messy in this respect.
Anne G
P.S., thank you for welcoming me. This board seems awfully interesting. |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 367
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 3:38 am: | |
Aw, certainly you wouldn't be suggesting that Sawyer has been reading too much Boule, Binford, Tattersall or Stringer to get his N interpretations? I much prefer Wolfpoff and Trinkaus myself...
Sawyer does allow for cross-breeding (Ponter and Mare), albeit with a through genetic manipulatory gymnastics. He neatly sidesteps the interbreeding argument and puts it to rest in his books by positing a Neanderthal karyotype that has 24 pairs versus our 23. To my knowledge, nuclear DNA has not been recovered from any ancient specimen, much less from a Neanderthal - so that question's answer will have to wait.
Lagar Velho is a problem. At first the OOA mob demanded that we find a cross. When one apparently showed up, they dismissed it as a "stocky young kid". So, we apparently need to find more evidence that such a population existed. Schwartz and Tattersall are almost on a crusade to discredit the find.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Thalion
storyteller
Username: Thalion
Post Number: 910
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 10:59 am: | |
I guess unless a frozen Neanderthal isn't found somewhere (or Dr. Creb reveals the construction plans for his time travel machine), that fight between OOA and MR people won't be settled. Don't we wish to have a parallel universe similar to the one Sawyer describes?
Anne, your project sounds very interesting. Have you published something in the past? Is there a deadline/publisher for your new book yet? It will certainly be interesting to read more about it in the future.
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they pass by - Douglas Adams |
Sidescraper_gal
bear cub
Username: Sidescraper_gal
Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 3:04 pm: | |
Thalion:
Interesting you mention frozen Neandertals. The Gear book "Raising Abel" has precisely this beginning(that's how they extract genetic material to recreate a bunch of Neandertals in modern society).
Be this as it may, the OoA v. MRE fight is a cyclical one that probably won't end any time soon. It just so happens that OoA is the dominant "paradigm" at the moment.
And I wish I had a publishing deadline. I wish I was *published*. However, I have a partner in writing crime who is helping me along and I'm helping her with hers, so my current incarnation(about a Neandertal teenage girl)is coming along, and I'm looking around for agents who might be interested. I also have possible help in sending things out, the thought of which tends to make me extremely queasy.
Anne G |
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Prehistorical Fiction, SF and Fantasy