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Da_bear
storyteller
Username: Da_bear
Post Number: 71
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 2:42 pm: |     |
X prize won within year predicted
WASHINGTON Sept. 26 — In a race to achieve the first privately funded manned spaceflight, two teams of rocket engineers are poised to compete for the $10 million X Prize by launching people to the edge of space and bringing them back safely twice within a two-week period.
Peter H. Diamandis, chairman and CEO of the X Prize Foundation, said he expects that one of the two teams will launch within the next few months, using rockets and spacecraft that are already being tested and prepared for the daring venture. A Mojave Desert airport in California has already been approved for use as a launch pad for the suborbital missions.
"We expect to have a winner within the next nine to 12 months," said Diamandis in a presentation Friday to officials of the Federal Aviation Administration.
Federal officials said that the applications of the two rocket teams have already been approved by the FAA.
The teams are Scaled Composites, led by aviation maverick Burt Rutan, and Armadillo Aerospace, a Dallas group headed by John Carmack, a computer game designer who made a fortune on "Doom" and "Quake."
There are 23 other registered groups from seven countries competing for the $10 million cash prize. There are teams from Russia, United Kingdom, Romania, Israel, Argentina and two from Canada. The rest are headquartered in the U.S.
Diamandis said the goal of X Prize is to promote commercial human spaceflight, just as prizes offered early in the 20th century jump-started the aviation industry. For instance, Charles Lindbergh made the first solo flight across the Atlantic in 1927 while competing for a $25,000 aviation prize, he said.
Lindbergh's flight, said Diamandis, "was a mind-shift breakthrough" for the public. Within 18 months after that daring flight, the number of people boarding airlines rose from 5,700 a year to almost 200,000.
Demonstrating that private companies can build and fly spacecraft can be a major step toward making human spaceflight as routine flying on an airliner is now, he said.
"The flood gates will open when a group of private people can plan on going some place in space," said Diamandis. He said earlier prizes opened "the golden age of aviation" and with private firms racing to reach space "it's happening again, right now."
The X Prize contest calls for launching a manned craft to 62 miles, generally considered the cusp of space, and returning it safely to Earth. And then doing it again within 14 days. The craft must be able to carry three people, although the contest rules permit contestants to use one pilot accompanied by equipment equal to the weight of two people.
Diamandis said the craft will not go into orbit and will not fly far from its launch site. But it will graze space, giving an orbit-like view of the Earth and perhaps brief moments of weightlessness. The whole adventure would probably last about 15 minutes.
Yet, Diamandis said market surveys suggest that there are about 10,000 Americans who would spend up to $100,000 for such a space adventure.
"Think of it as barnstorming" but with a $1 billion market, he said, referring to the 1920s practice of freelance pilots who charged a fee for airplane rides.
Asked about the risk involved, Diamandis didn't pull punches in his talk to FAA officials.
"People may die," he said. "This is dangerous stuff."
But Diamandis argues that taking such risks is a basic human right that the government should honor.
"They should have the right to risk their own lives for something they believe in," he told government executives whose jobs include aviation safety. American was settled by pioneers who chose to risk all for new land or to explore the unknown, he said, and without such a spirit humans will always be Earthbound.
"We are living in a risk-averse society and giving birth to the space travel industry is very difficult under those circumstances," said Diamandis.
The X Prize is financed by private donors. The list of supporters includes Dennis Tito, an American who spent $20 million to fly on a Russian craft as history's first space tourist, Erik Lindbergh, a pilot and grandson of Charles Lindbergh, former astronaut and U.S. Senator John Glenn, and movie actor Tom Hanks.
First USA Bank donated $1 million, as did the New Spirit of St. Louis Organization, a descendent of the group that sponsored the trans-Atlantic flight by Charles Lindbergh in 1927.
They seem to be rather confident this will happen.
When can I buy tickets????
da bear
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 79
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 4:32 am: | |
Seems a bit reckless to me. So, if people are killed, then the foundation offering the prize is partially responsible - offering a prize of such a magnitude that people may be willing to risk more than they would with simple funding and common sense. I think this is irresponsible. Offer a nominal prize, recognition and then funding to research this - then I would agree. This is one area where I think that government funding of private enterprise is sorely needed. NASA used to be and can be again, a great organisation. It really excels in pure research, just look at Voyager and Galileo for example.
That being said, I will be in line right behind bear - but only if we get to go beyond the earth's atmosphere. 99 kms doesn't cut it IMO.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Da_bear
storyteller
Username: Da_bear
Post Number: 72
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 10:11 pm: | |
People were killed in the flight contests that sparked aviation. These people are well aware of the risks, and they choose to continue. They are, most assuredly, well aware of the risks they take. Explorers always take risks.
I reserve the right to take chances, and allow others to do so, as long as its adults, well informed, and a free choice.
A safety net is an excellent part of our society, a safety jacket is not.
da bear
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 82
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 11:14 pm: | |
Agreed bear, if that is truly of your own free will and volition. But, I have a problem when corporations essentially bribe us to take risks that we would not otherwise take. I have no problem with funding unconventional research - but the offering of a prize, in and of itself, tells me that people wouldn't do it if there was no huge monetary prize. Fund the research, put the 10 million up to anyone willing to *explore* the possibilities, but don't bribe people to take unnecessary risks in order that they *might* win 10 million bucks.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Da_bear
storyteller
Username: Da_bear
Post Number: 73
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 12:51 am: | |
but don't bribe people to take unnecessary risks in order that they *might* win 10 million bucks.
If I understand correctly, most of the participants will have spent more than that to "win". An accounting of the costs would be interesting.
da bear
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 87
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 2:03 am: | |
I agree that an accounting would be interesting. Then take a look at the duplication of efforts (essentially a waste of resources) and I suspect that had you assembled the teams into a team, and given them the 10 million to start them off, similar results could be acheived without risking as much life. After all, with one team, you risk one human life twice. With ten teams competing, you have 20 lives risked. Seems a waste and morally reprehensible to promote such to me.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Rhi
storyteller
Username: Rhi
Post Number: 60
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 3:05 am: | |
So, is it mostly the money involved that bothers you, Scott? I *CAN* understand that, to a point, as it seems, from what Bear's said, that participants spend more than they earn. It's more of a perk than a prize. "Here, you won, so you get some of your original investment back."
However, exploration has always been about risk. How many people have died while going on expeditions to Antartica, or crossing the Atlantic Ocean, or going into an unknown culture?
In the long run of the Earth, 20 lives is negligible. Not that it's right, but if they go into it willingly, it's their choice, and I won't try to take that away from them. Maybe we'll learn something, maybe we won't, but the people involved consider it worthy of their lives.
Mostly Harmless |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 89
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 9:44 am: | |
Hey, I agree Rhi, risk is apart of the human condition. I have no problem of people taking risks of their own free will. But I find it morally disturbing that organisations would essentially bribe them to take a risk that they otherwise wouldn't.
History is replete with people taking risks for personal gain. We all do that every day on a smaller scale. If I started a company that offered 500,000$ to anyone that was successful in riding over Niagara Falls in a self-developed piece of technology (such as a barrel or capsule) for scientific advancement of some sort, what would the public and government outcry be, especially after the deaths that would inevitably take place? Hey, if you want to jump off Niagara in a canoe to see if you can *do it* be my guest. But that should be done of your own volition, not helped by a prize IMO.
I have no qualms with money being given to fund research. I guess the problem I have is the prize, the enticement of monetary gain that in effect forces the person to accept personal risk that s/he might not otherwise accept in the pursuit of pure research.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Da_bear
storyteller
Username: Da_bear
Post Number: 74
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 5:27 pm: | |
Newsweek:
quote:“Sure, there was a moment of worry,” Rutan said later that afternoon. “The craft didn’t behave as we expected it to.” But Rutan, the man responsible for more innovations in modern aviation than any living engineer, such as the use of lightweight composite materials in aircraft, also said, “You expect anomalies when testing out radical designs.” And the design—and purpose—of his ship are unmistakably radical. When fully operational, SpaceShipOne will sport a single rocket burning a hybrid fuel of nitrous oxide and HTPB (basically, rubber). Upon separating from White Knight, SpaceShipOne will be thrust to an altitude of 62 miles, the very edge of space, carrying a pilot and two passengers. Rutan, 60, is an energetic visionary, with old-fashioned sideburns and a slightly hunched-forward gait, as if he’s trying to get to his next appointment faster than his legs will allow. Among his many accomplishments is Voyager, the first airplane to fly around the world without refueling. So it’s worth listening when Rutan says that the design flaw exposed in the test can be fixed, and his private manned space program is on track—possibly for an inaugural flight on Dec. 17, the 100th anniversary of the birth of aviation.. . . . . . . One reason Rutan is able to do what companies like XCOR cannot is his unusually deep pockets: a $30 million grant from a mystery millionaire that his company calls “the customer.” NEWSWEEK reported last spring that the customer was rumored to be Microsoft cofounder Paul Allen, the third-wealthiest man in America. Allen and Rutan still have no comment, but several Scaled employees note that the firm is making not just a spaceship, but also a movie—a documentary film crew has been capturing every major step of the project for more than a year. The production company making the film, NEWSWEEK has learned, does work for a small Seattle outfit called Vulcan Productions—Allen’s documentary film company.
Cbsnews:
quote:The X Prize is financed by private donors. The list of supporters includes Dennis Tito, an American who spent $20 million to fly on a Russian craft as history's first space tourist, Erik Lindbergh, a pilot and grandson of Charles Lindbergh, former astronaut and U.S. Senator John Glenn, and movie actor Tom Hanks.
First USA Bank donated $1 million, as did the New Spirit of St. Louis Organization, a descendent of the group that sponsored the trans-Atlantic flight by Charles Lindbergh in 1927.
Just a bit more info.
da bear
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. |
Darsina
gatherer
Username: Darsina
Post Number: 77
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 7:45 pm: | |
Originally posted by bear:
"People were killed in the flight contests that sparked aviation. These people are well aware of the risks, and they choose to continue. They are, most assuredly, well aware of the risks they take. Explorers always take risks."
Agreed. There’s nothing wrong with taking calculated risks. Research requires risks to make progress. Not necessarily risking your life, but often risk of money, comfort (a lab is no living room  ) and reputation in case that you oppose a well established theory. But researchers have the duty to make sure that they only endanger themselves. They bear a huge responsibility. The public must not be affected by their doings, may it be pollution of air or water or setting free of dangerous viruses or germs, just to give some examples.
Mojave Desert is certainly a vast area. But can both the engineers and the headmen of the foundation really be sure that nobody else will be hurt or even killed by a crashing rocket? I can’t remember reading how far they intend to go up. I suppose, however, that after reaching a certain height they can’t be sure any longer to crash into the desert in case that something goes wrong.
Or do you think that this special aim is worth all risks? Personally, I'd say no.
|
Cavebear
gatherer
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 100
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 8:49 pm: | |
I think that the only way we are going to get into space in the long-term is through private enterprise. The government did what it is supposed to do; it did basic research, it spread the cost of knowledge across the population, it showed the action could be done.
But the future of space travel and development rests with commercial enterprises. If it isn't financially viable in the long-term, it won't happen. Or, put another way, *until* it is financially viable, it won't happen.
Technology is built on science, but it is built on blood and death, too. It isn't just astronauts who have died so that the rest of us can learn how to "mature" a technology. It is an ongoing process of discovery, failure, and success.
Early metalurgists died from inhaling compounds they knew nothing about at first. We didn't decide not to make metals because of those deaths. Early sailors died at sea as we slowly learned how to make better and stronger ships. Earlier colonists died in strange lands until the survivors learned how to use the new plants and natural wealth around them.
In every change, there is danger. Some people are attracted to risk, some dislike it but endure it, some even take risks in great fear but also great hope.
Space travel is no different from deep sea exploration, desert exploration, or trying to survive in any unaccustomed place. Some brave people will die and others will follow in their footsteps and correct the problems. Every step up the mountain is based of the journey of the previous explorers.
There is much to be gained from learning how to escape our planet. Humans seek new places and new challenges, it seems to be an inherent drive. We seem to need to the challenges.
Aside from that, there is the "eggs in one basket" problem. The sooner we are on more than one planet, then the sooner we are safe from single-planet catastrophe. When we are on 2 planets, than we are safer from a mass-extinction that affects one planet. And when we are in 2 stellar systems, then we are safer from a single stellar catastrophe.
I want humans to survive a long, long time. I want our "story" to go on forever. I salute those brave souls who walk the sword's edge and sometimes die while doing so. They are the ones who lead us to new places.
If they are sometimes offerred a small financial incentive, I do not mind that. It is a small gift to offer. I doubt that anyone would give up their lives just for money for their descendants, but there are many who desire greatly to test their own abilities, experience things no other human has ever experienced, and seek fame and recognition for their own sake.
I say we should recognize that, encourage those people to stretch our technology and knowledge to the limits, and learn from what they discover.
Some people brave the unknown, some follow soon after, some wait until the new is no longer new. It takes all kinds. If we try to deny the risk-takers, we will never progress.
Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went nuts. |
Darsina
gatherer
Username: Darsina
Post Number: 78
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 7:09 pm: | |
Cavebear, would you like starting a discussion in Head-Clash-In on the general duties (both musts and must-nots) researchers have to fulfill nowadays, compared to researchers of earlier times maybe?
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde |
Nova
bear cub
Username: Nova
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 4:08 pm: | |
I'm an avid follower of the X-Prize. While the $10million can only be won by one team, the founders of the X-prize have modeled the contest after NASCAR, America's Cup, etc...Think Extreme Air Show. The event(s) will extend over 2 weeks so that each team can make 2 attempts as the rules state.
Here's the official site:
http://xprize.com
One team wants to send a teenager up!!! That's something I have mixed feelings about. I know that when I was younger, I'd have given ANYTHING to go to space. But an experimental craft??? I don't know, seems kind of crazy to me.
A poll on the X-Prize website shows that most people think it will be AFTER January 2005 that anyone will win the prize. |
Nova
bear cub
Username: Nova
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 3:24 pm: | |
I just got this news:
http://www.xprize.org/
SPACESHIPONE BREAKS THE SOUND BARRIER
12.17.03
Today, a significant milestone was achieved by Scaled Composites in their pursuit of private spaceflight and the X PRIZE: The first manned supersonic flight by an aircraft developed by a small company's private, non-government effort. This flight was the first powered flight of SpaceShipOne.
Scaled's White Knight turbojet launch aircraft, flown by Test Pilot Peter Siebold, carried research rocket plane SpaceShipOne to 48,000 feet altitude. At 8:15 a.m. SpaceShipOne was released and Test Pilot, Brian Binnie then flew the ship to a stable, 0.55 mach gliding flight condition, started a pull-up, and fired its hybrid rocket motor. Nine seconds later, SpaceShipOne broke the sound barrier and continued its steep powered ascent. The climb was very aggressive, accelerating forward at more than 3-g. At motor shutdown, 15 seconds after ignition, SpaceShipOne was climbing at a 60-degree angle and flying near 1.2 Mach (930 mph). Brian then continued the maneuver to a vertical climb, achieving zero speed at an altitude of 68,000 feet. He then configured the ship in its high-drag "feathered" shape to simulate the condition it will experience when it enters the atmosphere after a space flight. After descending in feathered flight for about a minute, Brian reconfigured the ship to its conventional glider shape and flew a 12-minute glide to landing at Scaleds home airport of Mojave. The landing was not without incident as the left landing gear retracted at touchdown causing the ship to veer to the left and leave the runway with its left wing down. Damage from the landing incident was minor and will easily be repaired. There were no injuries.
More here:
http://www.xprize.org/press/release_046.html
Could someone explain to me why my links aren't working???Thank You!
~}nova |
Da_bear
storyteller
Username: Da_bear
Post Number: 213
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 6:30 pm: | |
And from our friends at New scientist:
new scientist
The first piloted and rocket-powered craft to have been developed by a private company made its maiden flight on Wednesday, over the Mojave desert in California.
The craft, called Space Ship One (SS1), also become the first such craft to break the sound barrier, reaching a top speed of 930 mph (1490 km/h). The flight, exactly 100 years after the Wright brothers made their historic flight, marks a big step to winning the $10 million X Prize for private spaceflight.
SS1 soared to over 20 kilometres altitude (Image: Scaled Composites)
SS1 has been developed by Scaled Composites, an aerospace company run by famed airplane pioneer Burt Rutan. Wednesday's flight followed a four-month series of unpowered drop and land tests.
Observers believe the flight could set the stage for the coming century in the same way the Wright brothers' began the last. Rick Tumlinson, head of the Space Frontier Foundation, says that, like the Wrights, "Scaled Composites is opening the next level of flight to the general public, and doing it without government money."
Nose up
The fully reusable system uses two vehicles. The first, a turbojet-powered carrier plane called White Knight, carries the second, SS1, up to about 15,000 metres (48,000 feet). SS1 is then released by White Knight and ignites its innovative hybrid rocket motor.
Test pilot Brian Binnie, at the controls of SS1, began the flight at 0815 PST, after being released from the carrier plane by its pilot, Peter Siebold. The two were moving at Mach 0.55 at the time of release.
Binnie then pulled SS1's nose up to 60° and lit the rocket for 15 seconds. This blasted SS1 to 930 mph, or Mach 1.2, and an altitude of 68,000 feet (20,700 m).
Such heights have not been seen by any such rocket craft since the X-15 test flights in the 1960s. Finally, SS1 glided down for 12 minutes and returned to the runway.
There were no problems during the flight, but the craft's landing gear partly collapsed as it touched down and one wingtip hit the runway, causing minor damage.
I can't wait for it to actually happen!!!!!
da space(y) bear
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. |
Da_bear
storyteller
Username: Da_bear
Post Number: 362
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 7:19 pm: | |
Looks like its gonna happen soon.
CBSnews
A rocket plane soared out of Earth's atmosphere Monday in history's first privately financed manned spaceflight.
SpaceShipOne pilot Mike Melvill was aiming to fly 62 miles high. The exact altitude was to be confirmed by radar later.
The ship touched down to applause and cheers at 8:15, about 90 minutes after the flight began.
For a few minutes after SpaceShipOne began its descent, it was unclear whether Melvill had reached his goal. But the mission announcer finally said the mission had been successful as the craft prepared to land at Mojave Airport, accompanied by three chase planes.
"Beautiful sight, Mike," mission control said to Melvill as the gliding spaceship slowly circled toward its landing.
The liftoff of the futuristic jet plane also went perfectly, reports CBS News Correspondent Steve Futterman.
"We wish everybody well," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan a few minutes later. "Everybody is following it with great interest."
The exotic White Knight mother-ship lifted off about 6:45 a.m. PDT and took an hour to reach about 50,000 feet and release the rocket.
Later, standing on the tarmac beside the ship, Melvill said seeing the Earth from outside the atmosphere was "almost a religious experience."
"You can see the curvature of the Earth," he said. "You got a hell of a view from 60, 62 miles."
Melvill said he heard a loud bang during the flight and did not know what it was. But he pointed to a place at the rear of the spacecraft where a part of the structure covering the nozzle had buckled, suggesting it may have been the source of the noise.
The project was funded by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, who would only describe the cost as being in excess of $20 million.
SpaceShipOne has emerged as the leading contender for the Ansari X Prize, a $10 million award to the first privately financed three-seat spacecraft to reach 62 miles and repeat the feat within two weeks.
Monday's flight was not part of that competition, but with the apparent total success of this flight, the attention of those involved will most likely turn now to that competition, reports Futterman. To win the prize the space ship must go into space twice during a two-week period, but with a much heavier payload, he equivalent weight of three people as opposed to one.
"I'm ready to go, boy, I am ready to go, and we are going to win the X-Prize. Put your money on it," Melvil said Sunday.
The rocket plane was so thoroughly prepared that no work was done on it over the weekend, designer Burt Rutan said Sunday as aviation enthusiasts gathered in the Mojave Desert.
Melvill, 62, was selected for the flight from among the project's three pilots. During a test flight last month, he flew the rocket plane to an altitude of about 40 miles.
Melvill is a test pilot and vice president-general manager at Rutan's company, Scaled Composites, which built SpaceShipOne.
He set national and world records for altitude and speed in certain classes of aircraft, and has logged more than 6,400 hours of flight time in 111 fixed-wing aircraft and seven helicopters. His test flights range from crop dusters to fighter jet prototypes and racing planes.
Rutan gained wide fame by designing the Voyager aircraft which flew around the world nonstop and without refueling in 1986.
Rutan asserted that if NASA planned something like the flight of SpaceShipOne there would be less interest.
"The significance (of SpaceShipOne) is the realization that, hey, this is for us to do now. This is not only for governments to do," he said. "... I believe that realization will attract investment and that realization will attract a whole bunch of activity and very soon it will be affordable for you to fly."
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. |
Cavebear
flint knapper
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 1050
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:14 pm: | |
I am thrilled with this news (heard it earlier today on the radio). When commercial enterprises start travelling spaceward, we have a shot at making real space travel viable. This is one of the clearer examples of how government can start things until private enterprise can begin to take advantage of the "boost" (pun intended). Both have their place.
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken about that. |
Thalion
storyteller
Username: Thalion
Post Number: 896
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 7:02 am: | |
YES! This is so exciting! So maybe it will be possible to make the 'round trip' during my lifetime after all. Anyone willing to sponsor a poor space enthusiast? Anyone got a good training schedule?
Heinlein would be SO happy!
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they pass by - Douglas Adams |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 361
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 5:29 am: | |
Don't count the Canadians out yet. They are test flighting in August - should be interesting to see the results and how things improve as these private efforts learn from their efforts.
The flight this week could have ended in disaster, in fact it seems that only luck prevented that. Does the 10 million make people and teams take larger risks than they otherwise would? I hope not.
Ok Thal, I will throw in some spare change. Maybe you can talk to the FICAS Treasurer and see if he could help out a bit, that is, if he can spare a few moments away from Rosita and company in Rio.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Bartholomewcm
gatherer
Username: Bartholomewcm
Post Number: 211
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 11:52 pm: | |
Now is a good time to re-read Robert Heinlein's account of how billionaire D.D. Harriman begged, borrowed, and stole his way into space in "The Man Who Sold the Moon" in May of 1941. |
Cavebear
flint knapper
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 1053
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 12:59 am: | |
(Scott) "The flight this week could have ended in disaster, in fact it seems that only luck prevented that. Does the 10 million make people and teams take larger risks than they otherwise would? I hope not."
It almost certainly does. Risking danger or engaging in possibly useless research to achieve prizes (or fame, which can also bring financial rewards from books or public speaking) has a long history and has often led to great successes. The British government gained an accurate ship-borne clock that way. Charles Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic for a prize.
I see nothing wrong with this; many people risk death for less purpose or gain. I hope the prize leads to technology breakthroughs and starts to make space exploration both more practical and profitable. Mostly, I want it to become more likely.
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken about that. |
Thalion
storyteller
Username: Thalion
Post Number: 912
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 3:10 pm: | |
Mike: Now is a good time to re-read Robert Heinlein's account of how billionaire D.D. Harriman
Yes, I was thinking about Harriman as well, and about Heinlein's love for the space program, and his disappointment that it wasn't pursued with more emphasis (there's information about that in Grumbles from the Grave). With an apology to people who don't read Heinlein, or SF in general....
cavebear: I see nothing wrong with this; many people risk death for less purpose or gain.
Me neither. If those people know exactly what risk they are taking. However, I do have a problem with missions that have a likelyhood of 80+% of a suicide mission. If, sometimes in the future, space flight will be commercialized, should there be a control function for 'black sheep'? Safety first should be a prime consideration when the business depends on people being transported, but as we know from some airlines, there can be black sheep.... and the price to pay to find out is heavy, shudder.
On the other hand, those spacecrafts would be so much more expensive, companies would not want to afford to lose them....
Am I too cynical?
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they pass by - Douglas Adams |
Sidescraper_gal
bear cub
Username: Sidescraper_gal
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 3:17 pm: | |
All:
I wouldn't mind going on a private space ride. . . if (a) money was no object and (b) it became common enough. But where, at the present time, would one go in space? There aren't too many venues, unless you want to go "sightseeing". Which might be an interesting trip in itself.
Anne G |
Cavebear
flint knapper
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 1079
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 6:34 pm: | |
For now, getting into space at all is the goal. We'll decide where to go when we have some ability to fulfill the choices. Meanwhile, we will push our technology like a fledgling bird testing its wings.
We are an exploring species. From our earliest days, we have gone over one mountain after another and crossed many rivers just to see what was on the other side. We seek a "better place" far more deliberately than other animals.
What was the motive for the first rafts or boats? We didn't know that we would find more fish in deeper waters. We didn't know for sure that there was new land over the horizon. They went because some few of them felt driven to find new places and see what they had not seen before.
Trite as it may seem, we do indeed climb mountains "because they are there". We want to know what it is like up there, to see the world in a way no others have, to say "I did this and no one else has".
We travel to new places because sometimes life really is better in the new place; because there is something deep within our being that compels us to explore.
In the movie 'The Right Stuff', Chuck Yeager demonstrated the individual drive to go someplace new:
"One of the planes he tested in 1963 was the NF-104, an F-104 with a rocket over the tailpipe, an airplane which theoretically could climb to over 120,000 feet. Yeager made the first three flights of the NF-104. On the fourth, he planned to exceed the magic 100,000 foot level. He cut in the rocket boosters at 60,000 feet and it roared upwards. He gets up to 104,000 feet before trouble set in."
I don't know how accurate the movie was, but at the height of Yeager's flight, the last blue wisps of atmosphere gave way, briefly, to the blackness of space and all the stars like diamonds. I could feel the human hunger to go yet further, in that scene, as in few other examples.
Most of us casually accept the consequences of our need to explore. We are born into places where our ancestors struggled and died to discover and adapt to. We take it for granted that we, as a species, are spread across the globe like few other animals. We forget how much risk and death went into that result.
Not all of us are explorers; indeed, very few of us are. But there is, in all of us, the potential for it, the genetic drive to find something better. When the desire is active in some of us, we should do all we can to encourage and support it.
We will go into space someday soon as a profitable enterprise. If we do not know today what those enterprises will be, that is no surprise and no concern. We will find them when we find them. Few of our deliberate explorations have turned out to be valuable for the reasons first thought. But we always find value in the explorations eventually.
So let those driven to explore, explore. Let us support the cost of the initial attempts so that the real values can be found by others afterwards. Certainly, there should be no nearly-suicidal efforts; no one should ever demand or expect death as a reward for bravery and challenge. Let us make the exploration as safe as humanly possible but with the knowledge death is a possible outcome. And let our own individual reluctance to take great risk not restrain those who have less concern and greater daring.
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken about that. |
Pine
storyteller
Username: Pine
Post Number: 538
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 4:01 pm: | |
There is a competitor!
Second X prize competitor to be unveiled
quote:According to rocketeer Brian Feeney, the race for the X prize is far from over. Wild Fire, the sleek, crimson rocket he plans to unveil this Thursday, could yet scoop the US$10-million space trophy.
The X-prize jackpot, created to kick-start space tourism, will be awarded to the first privately funded, piloted craft to reach space twice in two weeks, carrying a pilot and the weight equivalent of two passengers. Until now, the spotlight has fallen squarely on SpaceShipOne, the brainchild of aerospace designer Burt Rutan. Last week, Rutan and his team at Scaled Composites announced that their craft would make its first competition flight on 29 September, following the successful trial run in June.
Feeney's da Vinci Project team is based in Toronto, Canada. He claims he could give Rutan a run for his money, but he needs half a million dollars to fund Wild Fire's test flight. If a donor steps up, "we're gonna go for it as hard and as fast as we possibly can", he says.
"Mommy, you are not always wrong!" - my daughter, almost 6. |
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