| Author |
Message |
    
Cavebear
flint knapper
Username: Cavebear
Post Number: 1865
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 12:32 am: |     |
(Boredomkills) “I consider my discussion with Cavebear in the religion section as civil. I have to say, I have come to respect his ability to articulate an argument with civility. Its been a spirited debate, and I have enjoyed it!”
It has been relatively civil. Partly, that’s because I was a bit of a jerk in January (you haven’t earned the right to know the reasons) and I’ve been bending over backwards to be civil to my friends and internet partners as a result. I do enjoy responding to your posts; it is rather relaxing compared to the difficulty in responding to really solid arguments from the others here, sort of like playing chess with a teenager where my experience and logic will win over unsound enthusiasm and aggressiveness.
I’ve debated subjects with people younger than you who were very much better at it and more knowledgeable in their areas of interest. I respect them greatly.
(Boredomkills) “By your own admission your being "led", unless you are a leader...But I presumed your speaking about Scott and Thalion”
LOL! We are not led by Thalion and Scott. They administer the Board, but otherwise their posts have no more authority than any of those of the rest of us. Any viewpoint reputation they have is earned through discussion just like it is for the rest of us. We are ALL leaders here.
(Boredomkills) “My "look" argument shows that I have made attempts at, and I can't believe I am saying this, "fit in". If you wish to dismiss my behavior in other threads thats fine, but it seems very selective to me...one can be a jerk without being a total jerk”
It is good that you are trying to “fit in”. I don’t think you are a “total jerk”. I do think you need to keep more to the questions asked and not just change the focus when the questions are difficult. Think of it this way; answering the hard questions is a learning experience, and you will be better off (in the long run) through the admittedly difficult process of staying on focus even when you are losing the argument. Think of a place like this as learning how to handle life after you succeed at the lesser contest of college. 
I don’t mean that anyone has to have a college education to be here, but everyone here thinks really hard about things and learns to discuss on the basis of evidence and/or logic. That’s not something that is really taught much these days, but it is a very valuable experience.
Sometimes, you just have to say to someone else, “you’re right”, and learn from what they told you. I have.
(Boredomkills) “Hello, this is not a Monday night social at the library”
Indeed, it is not. This is a place where solid arguments must be made and where they must be responded to. This is not moot court or a formal debate where you get credits for answering questions by providing diversions or non-answers. We are too experienced at those tactics and we reject them. You have to answer the hard question posed by others, not the ones that are just easiest. Haven’t you noticed that I respond to about everything you post to me, especially the most difficult parts? It’s a good habit to get into, and it will serve you well throughout life.
(Boredomkills) “A benevolent dictatorship....hahaha”
It is, and you will eventually learn that it is the only workable form of management of anything. Except at the very highest levels of democratic elections, benevolent dictatorships work best. Now, if everyone would just elect me as US Monarch, I could show that it works well at that level, too.
(Boredomkills) “Clearly everything posted on this site does not have to be in argument form”
Rule #1 of any Board: Everything you say can and will be remembered or found by somebody somewhere when you least expect it. This is a community, not a random drive-by posting opportunity. Your posts become the whole of your persona. You can no more escape what you casually say here than you can make people forget that you wore a lampshade at a neighborhood party. Actually, it is worse. What you say here is not only recorded (and findable) through posterity, it is even findable on the internet in general. Researching some subjects, I have found my own posts here.
The speed of time is 3,600 seconds per hour... |
Rhi
hunter
Username: Rhi
Post Number: 298
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 2:43 am: | |
I find it extremely rude, petty, and unsophisticated when grammar is the only form of attack someone has left to them.
Most of the regular members of this board are not native English speakers. But those non-native English speakers have excellently thought out and supported arguements. BK, I guess you don't realize that the word "ain't" has been an accepted word in the dictionary for some time.
But, BK, let me commend you on how much entertainment you have provided since you started posting. You've been on par with television on even your worst day.
However, I don't usually come here for entertainment.
I hope you don't think of my post as an insult, because it is truly not one. I have been greatly entertained by your posts, but pure entertainment hasn't been the nature of this board since its conception.
Mostly Harmless |
Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 834
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 4:19 am: | |
You really like to dance around with semantics don't you BK? She was admonishing you not to be naive, take it at face value and more on. Sheesh.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Darsina
hunter
Username: Darsina
Post Number: 451
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 9:45 am: | |
(BK) "Children like regularity, predictability...Adults adapt."
Interesting stance. So in your opinion a child reacts predictably, while an adult adapts? I don't know for sure about children, don't have any myself, but some happened to surprise me immensely. But I'd agree with you that adults, at least educated ones, try to adapt if necessary. Now it's left to find out why your posts (we don't even need to leave this thread) clearly show a lack of adaption. It's been pointed out to you time over time again that it's not only acceptable but appreciated to attack people's posts. After all, this is sort of an internet debate club. If it's done mockingly, well, some arguments cry for being slaughtered due to their ignorance and stupidity. Has also happened to me. *shrug* Deal with it, learn from your mistakes, try to make it better the next time and move on. It is not acceptable, however, to attack a poster hirself. That's laid down in the board guidelines that you agreed to observe when you registered here. Every society has its rules, that's not leadership, but necessary to maintain the comunity. If the board rules are too restricting for your taste, you're free to move on. But I'd like to point out that, if you're interested in staying, the door is still wide open IMO. It's only a matter of adaption from your side. Oh, and I'm fairly sure you got the gist of what I was trying to say, although I have no doubt that my grammar and vocabulary are less than perfect.
Thinking is the work of the intellect, dreaming its enjoyment. - Victor Hugo |
Boredomkills
gatherer
Username: Boredomkills
Post Number: 166
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 11:51 pm: | |
"So in your opinion a child reacts predictably"
No what I said. Read it again. |
Miisa
flint knapper
Username: Miisa
Post Number: 669
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 6:57 am: | |
(BK)---...Children like regularity, predictability...Adults adapt.----
I have been trying to fit this into real life, and it just seems like you have it backwards. Everyone likes regularity all right, but children can usually adapt much more quickly and painlessly, adults are considerably more set in their ways.
I am sure you can still find a functional insult in there, but if you are going to insist on insulting us, at least be logical about it. |
Darsina
hunter
Username: Darsina
Post Number: 453
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 8:39 am: | |
(BK) "No what I said. Read it again."
Point taken. Doesn't change the conclusion of my post in the least, though, since my observation on children's behaviour was only a minor remark.
Thinking is the work of the intellect, dreaming its enjoyment. - Victor Hugo |
Pine
flint knapper
Username: Pine
Post Number: 923
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 4:50 pm: | |
Miisa, I think the difference between children and adults is that adults often know the reason for the need for a certain change and can make an informed and conscious effort to adapt, while small children just have it land on them. I know my daughter adapts when she wants to and when she is ready to do so, but not otherwise. Now that she is at a more rational age this happens more often.
"We have something offensive for everyone. If nothing that we own offends you, please complain." - sign in a library. |
Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 848
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 6:03 am: | |
I agree Pine. And I feel angst when I must force my daughter to do something (or rather not do something!) and not be able to communicate the *why* behind the request. My daughter adapts beautifully - if it suits her too. Then again, she is only 18 months old - but she knows not to touch the oven. She doesn't know why and is only beginning to understand concepts such as hot and cold.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Ted
gatherer
Username: Ted
Post Number: 162
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 6:48 am: | |
------ And I feel angst when I must force my daughter to do something (or rather not do something!) and not be able to communicate the *why* behind the request.------
Maybe, but sometime she has to realise (as you and your wife so obviously do, so different to parents who have given up the struggle. Onya!) that when her mother and father say with some conviction, "do it this way, not that way" then she had better listen up.
If I was being taught something I knew nothing about, say, rapier fencing, and my master said "hold it this way, put your feet this way, move this way" then I would try to do it his/her way before questioning the logic and perhaps working out my own methods. Or if you were trying to teach me how to paddle a kayak I would bust a gut trying to do it exactly the way you suggested.
Age and experience have had a bad press. It makes sense to me to make use of all the mistakes others have made before you and not make them yourself - until you know enough to bend the rules.
I know this comes over heavy handed - sorry!
I guess I'm also saying I never did feel any angst in this situation. No surprise to many on this board!
Ted
Do not go gentle into that good night...Rage, rage against the dying of the light |
Miisa
flint knapper
Username: Miisa
Post Number: 671
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 7:05 am: | |
It just seems to me (and this is empirical evidence, mind) that the older someone gets, the more likely they are to resist change and want to do things the way "the have been done before". Older generations are notoriously conservative.
Before Ted jumps all over me for that, I would wish to point out that this does of course not apply to him, as he is ageless. Or was that older than time?
 |
Ted
gatherer
Username: Ted
Post Number: 163
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 7:31 am: | |
It's not just older generations that are conservative.
If you want real conservatism, try a teenager.
In Oz, most schools have a school uniform. The kids can't wait to get out of their uniform at the weekend and go downtown on Saturday morning to see and be seen.
When they go, they get dressed up in a different uniform. My daughter told me she could identify the school each girl went to, from the back, from their clothes and hair style and presumably other cues, and got confirmation when they turned around (she knew most of the kids in town and the schools they went to by sight at least)
A problem I face as a teacher is to get students to learn a new and better way to organise their work. They want to do it the way they have always done it, messy and illogical and incomplete, not learn a better way. Persevere, and eventually they realise it is better, and say so.
Some people are just born conservative. I was going to write "old" !!!!
Some are willing to learn and learn and learn from whatever source. They are the students who get someplace. First they get the basics, then they take the ball and run with it, and teach their teachers something.
Others resist learning new ways to do something, and never reach their potential.
Despite my advanced age, I continually learn things from students!
Ted
Do not go gentle into that good night...Rage, rage against the dying of the light |
Ted
gatherer
Username: Ted
Post Number: 164
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 9:48 am: | |
------(cb) Everything you say can and will be remembered or found by somebody somewhere when you least expect it.----
Especially da bear. He has a bloody good memory, and the skills to find the exact quote.
Dammit.
Ted
Do not go gentle into that good night...Rage, rage against the dying of the light |
Thalion
flint knapper
Username: Thalion
Post Number: 1649
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 10:47 am: | |
Guys, for the time being, I would ask you to stop feeding the troll. I have posted an explanation and ultimatum for Boredomekills on the 'kids get easy off' thread - no use to reply to the complaints on other threads until he shows his true colors.
If he choses to apologize sincerely and with style - then we can do our best to try to explain our philosophy here - but not earlier.
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they pass by - Douglas Adams |
Boredomkills
gatherer
Username: Boredomkills
Post Number: 169
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 4:06 pm: | |
The dictator speaks!
Ok, now like good lemmings do what your told. |
Thalion
flint knapper
Username: Thalion
Post Number: 1661
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 4:19 pm: | |
I see. Now comes the 'I alone stand up towards injustice in this webworld' routine.
Not new either. If it were something new for a change, then it could be entertaining, at least....
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they pass by - Douglas Adams |
Annie
storyteller
Username: Annie
Post Number: 1309
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 4:22 pm: | |
Time to clean the board of this one, methinks.
ATTENTION! We are (definitely) planning to open a Procrastinators' Club! Sometime... Chess is the purest form of debate, unadulterated by a topic. |
Da_bear
flint knapper
Username: Da_bear
Post Number: 627
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 4:26 pm: | |
------(cb) Everything you say can and will be remembered or found by somebody somewhere when you least expect it.----
Especially da bear. He has a bloody good memory, and the skills to find the exact quote.
I take notes.
And thank you YOB.
da bear
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. |
Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 854
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 6:49 am: | |
You take notes bear? Hey not fair!
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Ecfanatic
bear cub
Username: Ecfanatic
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 10:18 pm: | |
Just to get back to the topic: THE SICKOS!!! We're trying to get rid of nuclear weapons, yet we are creating a weapon that has the potential to be worse! That is just hypocritical. |
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Science Lab 
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