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Message |
    
Angakuk
flint knapper
Username: Angakuk
Post Number: 708
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 12:44 am: |     |
This is a very interesting discovery. They are excavating an 8,000 yr. old site under 35 feet of water near the Isle of Wight.
Underwater archeology is the wave of the future (pun intended) when it comes to studying the patterns of prehistoric populations' movement and settlement.
To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily; not to dare is to lose oneself.
- Soren Kierkegaard
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Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 2070
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 3:26 am: | |
Thanks Angakuk. Excavating underwater is very difficult - you don't have static field conditions and you are encumbered with SCUBA etc.
Fisherman often bring up bones and pot shards so the number of sites out there that we know of but simply will never have the money to excavate is incredible.
The peopling of the Americas is probably written on the west coast seabed - and in fact a fair amount of research is now moving in that direction. Unfortunately with rising sea levels the sites only get more inaccessible.
I recently read a paper on how Britain was cut off from Europe rather precipitously on two occasions - massive catastrophic flooding - people in those settlements probably didn't have a lot of time to get out.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Angakuk
flint knapper
Username: Angakuk
Post Number: 709
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 5:26 am: | |
And not just on the west coast.
Michael Faught has done some very interesting work just off the Florida coast.
To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily; not to dare is to lose oneself.
- Soren Kierkegaard
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Sidescraper_gal
hunter
Username: Sidescraper_gal
Post Number: 535
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 1:14 am: | |
Angakuk, Scott, and all:
I think that the whole field of underwater archaeology is going to reveal some quite interesting things. The first underwater archaeology "dig"(if you can call it that), that I heard of, anyway, revealed Cosquer Cave, which was full of cave paintings, IIRC. Another interesting possibility, but not yet "dug" is "Doggerland", off the east coast of England. This area was land during the Pleistocene, and it is thought that a river ran through it. It's possible that there are prehistoric artifacts and settlements preserved there, if anybody can figure out how to get at them. If they do, they might turn out to be very significant, for a variety of reasons. It does look as if there may be interesting times ahead.
Anne G |
Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 2072
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 6:24 am: | |
Great article Angakuk. As you say the future of archaeology is likely to be under water.
Not all of it is in the ocean though. Take a look at: Little Salt Spring Underwater Archaeology Project
quote:During early prehistoric times (12,000-7,000 years ago) the sinkhole was an oasis in the peninsula that attracted seasonal hunters and gatherers. The site has produced the second-oldest dated artifact ever found in the southeast U.S. a sharpened wooden stake some 12,000 years old. Little Salt Spring contains some of the oldest cultural remains in Florida.
I did some amateur work in my teens at a couple of salt springs in Florida, part of what got me interested in the subject in the first place!
Anne, Clive Finlayson is a partner in a project in Gilbraltar looking for Neanderthal evidence (amongst other stuff) in submerged caves. Check out: Underwater Arch in Gilbraltar
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Don
hunter
Username: Don
Post Number: 490
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 9:24 pm: | |
Scott, do you have any info on the reliability of the Meadowcroft Rock Shelter datings?
The latest New Scientist has a great article on "the kelp highway" which is posited as the most likely method for the colonisation of the americas along the coast line from Japan, the Kurile Islands, Kamchatka peninsula, Aleutians and down the west coast. There's an early date of 14,850 years ago for Monte Verde island off the coast of Chile for meals of game and shellfish.
However one website I looked at reckons that the Meadowcroft site is nearly 20,000 years old. That sounds a little extreme to me, given the paucity (to my limited knowledge) of other sites of similar age in North America.
Any ideas?
Don
take what you want and pay for it |
Sidescraper_gal
hunter
Username: Sidescraper_gal
Post Number: 536
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 9:27 pm: | |
Scott and all:
I think there are tons of these projects coming down the track, so to speak. The Gibraltar project looks really exciting and we'll probably hear a lot more about it as time goes by. If I see anything about it, I'll happily keep everybody here informed.
Anne G |
Angakuk
flint knapper
Username: Angakuk
Post Number: 710
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:55 am: | |
I think that perhaps the most exciting aspect of underwater archeology, particularly as it applies to pleistocene sites, is the potential for recovering organic artifacts, articles seldom recovered from land-based sites. I seem to recall reading somewhere about a similar site in Florida that yielded a shell from an extinct species of turtle that had been pierced by a sharpened wooden point.
To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily; not to dare is to lose oneself.
- Soren Kierkegaard
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Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 2073
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:02 am: | |
Don, Meadowcroft was my undergrad "project" arguing against the Clovis-First mob! I will grab some stuff but the expert and only expert on the site is James (Jim) M. Adovasio. And don't let the 14C contamination red herring screw you over. It is all political but more later - I have something going on right now so will get to it on the weekend.
Check this site out and listen to Adovasio in his own words.
Meadowcroft
Scott
PS: 20K years is pushing it but not by much. See Dillehay on Monte Verde......
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Angakuk
flint knapper
Username: Angakuk
Post Number: 711
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 5:29 am: | |
I think that one of the reasons that are so few (relatively speaking) North or South American sites that are reliably dated pre 13k has to do with the long dominance of the Clovis First school of thought. People just didn't keep digging once they hit the Clovis layer. That has changed and, as a consequence, more evidence suggesting pre-Clovis settlement is now turning up. If you are not looking for something you are likely not going to find it, or not recognize it when you do.
To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily; not to dare is to lose oneself.
- Soren Kierkegaard
|
Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 2077
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 5:37 am: | |
Oh you are absolutely right Angakuk. Not so long ago in the US, you would be ridiculed, funding would be withheld and tenure was impossible if you subscribed to anything but Clovis First. You are right again that they stopped at Clovis and didn't go any further it was "that" ingrained that nothing could be below. People tried to ruin Adovasio's career in my opinion - but then archaeology seems to invite controversy and mob-like mentality.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Don
hunter
Username: Don
Post Number: 491
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 3:52 am: | |
The waters are further muddied with this article.
It is not yet certain that these are human footprints, but they are 40,000 years old:
http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=1883
take what you want and pay for it |
Scott
flint knapper
Username: Scott
Post Number: 2080
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 3:49 am: | |
quote:The oldest archaeological evidence is found in Chile's Monte Verde ruins, which contains signs of campfires and other clues of human occupation from about 14,500 years ago.
Wow, they are taking a conservative line here.
But where are the pics?
Thanks Don.
There is a whole industry out there of "Before Clovis" and a relatively large number of so-called pre-Clovis sites.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
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