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Sidescraper_gal
flint knapper
Username: Sidescraper_gal
Post Number: 621
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 3:57 am: |     |
All:
Neandertals apparently were a lot more "mobile" than some people like to believe You can read all about it here
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23073771/
Plus, there is a very nice picture of the tooth the researchers used to come to the conclusions they did.
The John Hawks blog also has a very nice commentary on this, as well. Which might be worth a read.
Anne G
Visit my blog: The Writer's Daily Grind |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 2269
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 8:57 pm: | |
I am with Finlayson on this. 12.5km is not a long distance and there are a lot of explanations that do not require Neanderthals to be more mobile than thought, to explain this. Until there is a lot more evidence, showing that a lot of individuals were moving a lot of kms, I will go with the prevailing view that they were not a bunch of Marco Polos.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
Sidescraper_gal
flint knapper
Username: Sidescraper_gal
Post Number: 622
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 2:20 am: | |
Scott:
That's kind of what it seemed like to me, when I read the article. OTOH, it does suggest that Neandertals were quite capable of making use of whatever resources they found, wherever they found them. It seems, in this case, that they made use of local shellfish and probably other things as well. BTW, there does seem to be some evidence that N's were willing to travel considerable distances(or at least may have had larger social networks than some people have previously believed), in order to get good tool-making material. I'm not sure where I read this, but it was fairly recent, and my files have been recently reorganized, so I'll look it up.
Anne G
Visit my blog: The Writer's Daily Grind |
Don
flint knapper
Username: Don
Post Number: 1168
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 2:37 am: | |
Don't forget trade between neighbouring bands.
Pieces of fine flint can move considerable distances (at considerable markup!) just by being traded at the borders of neighbouring territories.
There is evidence of this sort of trade across thousands of kilometres, in fine pieces of worked flint, and even in ceremonial dances, in Australia.
take what you want and pay for it |
Sidescraper_gal
flint knapper
Username: Sidescraper_gal
Post Number: 623
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 10:05 pm: | |
Don:
I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Neandertals did things like this. Brian Hayden even suggested such things some years back in a famous paper "Cultural Capacities of Neandertals", some years back. This paper, BTW, is still cited in the ongoing works of other researchers.
Anne G
Visit my blog: The Writer's Daily Grind |
Scott
storyteller
Username: Scott
Post Number: 2299
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 1:25 am: | |
Great point Don. Trade in early North American societies seems to be of epic proportions, but getting material from A to B and ultimately to Z isn't that complicated.
It is indeed - and we had to memorise the damn thing.
The full citation is:
Brian Hayden, "The cultural capacities of Neandertals: a review and re-evaluation," Journal of Human Evolution 24: 113-146. (February 1993)
quote:The cultural capacities of Neandertals: a review and re-evaluation
Brian Hayden
Archaeology Department, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, British Columbia V5A 1S6, Canada
Available online 26 April 2002.
Abstract
Numerous articles have appeared in the past decade that have portrayed Neandertals in a dehumanized, almost non-cultural fashion. Re-examination of the arguments and data indicates that such portrayals are more extreme than warranted. There are reasonable indications for some specialized and structured use of space; for the construction of shelters; for the use of a sophisticated technology involving standardized tools, economically rational behavior and foresight; for the ability to make basic bone tools, evolved stone blades and other complex tools; for the existence of rituals; for the existence of symbolic burials; and for the existence of cultural differences between regions. It is suggested that some of these characteristics probably originate among Preneandertal populations, become more elaborate in some classic Neandertal populations and persist into or become even more elaborate in the Upper Paleolithic. Finally, a model is proposed capable of explaining differences between Middle and Upper Paleolithic art in technological and economic terms rather than biological terms.
Scott
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ces gens, Jondalar, ils sourient. Ils me sourient. - Ayla |
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